MediaMOO Symposium:

Virtual Worlds for Business?

An online panel discussion featuring:

Paul Dourish, Xerox PARC
Adele Goldberg, Neometron, Inc.
David Leibs, Neometron, Inc.
Moderator: Amy Bruckman, Georgia Institute of Technology

January, 20th 1998
6:30 PM ET

Virtual worlds (both text-based and graphical) have many successful applications to entertainment and education. But can they be used for business? With telecommuting on the rise, can they be used to keep workers at home in touch? Can online project management tools help to coordinate geographically-distributed project teams? Can online meetings make fewer face-to-face meetings necessary? What is gained and what is lost? Getting beyond literal copies of existing business practices, what new metaphors and tools make this technology useful in a practical setting? Is it really useful at all?

About the panelists:

Paul Dourish performs research in the areas of collaborative and interactive systems. At Rank Xerox EuroPARC, he worked on the RAVE media space, and co-developed Portholes, the first distributed site awareness system, as well as working on a variety of collaborative tools, toolkits for collaborative systems, and studies of collaborative activity. At Apple Research, he pursued an investigation of the relationship between social and technical perspectives in interactive systems design. His current research at Xerox PARC is concerned with ad-hoc categorisation and fluid interactions with large document spaces. He has been a member of MediaMOO since November 1992.

Dr. Adele Goldberg is currently a founder of Neometron, Inc., a startup company working towards new forms of Intranet support for dynamic knowledge management. She is also leading the development of LearningWorks, a freely available system for creating and delivering curriculum about software construction. Previously, she served as Chairman of the Board and a founder of ParcPlace-Digitalk, Inc. until April, 1996. ParcPlace created application development environments based on object-oriented technology and sold to corporate programmers. Prior to the creation of ParcPlace, Adele received a Ph.D. in Information Science from the University of Chicago and spent 14 years as researcher and laboratory manager at the Xerox Palo Alto Research Center. From 1984-1986, Adele served as president of the ACM, having previously served as national Secretary and Editor-in-Chief of Computing Surveys. Solely and with others, Adele wrote the definitive books on the Smalltalk-80 programming system and has authored numerous papers on project management and analysis methodology using object-oriented technology. Dr. Goldberg edited The History of Personal Workstations, published jointly by the ACM and Addison-Wesley in 1988 as part of the ACM Press Book Series on the History of Computing which she organized, and co-edited Visual Object-Oriented Programming with Margaret Burnett and Ted Lewis. Her most recent book with Kenneth S. Rubin is on software engineering and is entitled Succeeding With Objects: Decision Frameworks for Project Management.

David Leibs is currently a founder of Neometron, Inc., a startup company working towards new forms of Intranet support for dynamic knowledge management. He has 20 years experience in creating innovative application development environments. Prior to founding Neometron, David was Director of Technical Research at ParcPlace-Digitalk, where he was a chief architect, systems designer and implementor. To his personal credit is the invention and implementation of the direct manipulation, graphical construction interface known as VisualWorks 1.0 (ParcPlace Systems' most successful product).

The forum was be held in the Summer Conference Room, Science Technology and Society (STS) Centre, on MediaMOO, telnet://mediamoo.cc.gatech.edu:8888

Event Log:

Summer Conference Room
A warm, sunny room with a table and plenty of chairs. Outside, the trees along Memorial Drive are a verdant green and pleasure boats are skittering across the Charles River. A warm breeze enters through an open window.

Obvious exits: out to STS Centre 2nd Level Hall
Guest, Gold_Guest, Fuchsia_Guest, Gray_Guest, Mulder, Polka_Dot_Guest, Amber_Guest, maddog, Grommit, Tari, Orange_Guest, Striped_Guest, Ochre_Guest, vivian, JohnT, Neon_Guest, mday, nealmcb, jonathan@rmit, Violet_Guest, leibs, Indigo_Guest, and Paul are standing here.
You see Plaque Showing How to Use This Room here.

Amy waves to all
Polka_Dot_Guest says [about erickson cd], "what are your expectations..if any"
taylor materializes out of thin air.
Grommit had heard that you can meet cute women on the net. So he came here. Honest.
< disconnected: Cin. Total: 38 >
Mulder eyes Grommit.
woodsy materializes out of thin air.
Tari laughs at Grommit
woodsy has disconnected.
Grommit woofchuckles.
Orange_Guest says, "what do clay dogs want with Women??>?"
Grommit says, "practice, mostly."
Grommit grins.
maddog says, "maybe a clay wommin will be here too"
Orange_Guest smirks
jonathan@rmit says, "I'm expecting to see how a mud works with lots of people trying to listen to one person."
maddog says, "of the doggy kind of course"
Fuchsia_Guest [to maddog]: those are bitches
< connected: adeleg. Total: 38 >
maddog says, "it will work fine..hey!"
maddog says, "now be nice"
Grommit nods, of course. Interspecies claymation is strictly forbidden.
adeleg materializes out of thin air.
Amy [to Adele]: welcome!
Fuchsia_Guest was being nice and serious.

>l
Summer Conference Room
A warm, sunny room with a table and plenty of chairs. Outside, the trees along Memorial Drive are a verdant green and pleasure boats are skittering across the Charles River. A warm breeze enters through an open window.

Obvious exits: out to STS Centre 2nd Level Hall
Guest, Gold_Guest, Fuchsia_Guest, Gray_Guest, Mulder, Polka_Dot_Guest, Amber_Guest, maddog, Grommit, Tari, Orange_Guest, Striped_Guest, Ochre_Guest, vivian, JohnT, Neon_Guest, mday, nealmcb, jonathan@rmit, Violet_Guest, leibs, Indigo_Guest, Paul, taylor, woodsy, and adeleg are standing here.
You see Plaque Showing How to Use This Room here.
Polka_Dot_Guest says [about erickson cd], "i thought there were going to be professionals here, you guys/gals are not acting too professinoal"
Orange_Guest beez nice
< connected: Pinstriped_Guest. Total: 39 >
woodsy has connected.
Orange_Guest nods

>@whois paul
Paul's real name is "Paul Dourish".
Paul (#559) can be reached via email as: dourish@parc.xerox.com

vivian laughs.
Pinstriped_Guest materializes out of thin air.
< connected: jaime. Total: 41 >
vivian [Polka_Dot]: remember what I said about genre?
Grommit says, "hey, now who says people can't do claymation and be serious ? "
maddog says, "pinstriped looks professional"
leibs says, ""hello" to adeleg"
Orange_Guest says, "I think the french said that."
Grommit bows nervously to Demigod Nick Park, who is all around, and moves infinitely fast.
< connected: Tom_R. Total: 42 >
taylor smiles hello to amy
Pinstriped_Guest slaps Orange Guest
Orange_Guest says, "or was it me..."
A blinding flash of light and a huge puff of smoke. As the smoke clears, you see that Tom_R is now here. He bows and says Hello
Grommit says, "sorry Old Nick."
woodsy says, "specially in his side car"
Orange_Guest cringes
Grommit says, "hi Tom_R."
Tom_R wav es to all.
Orange_Guest leans on the wall and naps
jonathan@rmit waves to Tom_R
woodsy disappears suddenly for parts unknown.
Pinstriped_Guest smacks Orange Guest again and as he goes down kicks him in the face.
maddog says, "hm"
Grommit sighs.
jonathan@rmit frown
maddog says, "so much for professionalism"
Pinstriped_Guest says, "Shut up Grommit."
adeleg says, ""Hi Amy. Question. When we do the panel, will everyone listen or keep their talking?" to Amy"
Polka_Dot_Guest [vivian]
maddog says, "listen"
Grommit is a plasticene dog - anything ou here, you're imagining, Pinstripe.
Polka_Dot_Guest [vivian]:is this what you expected
jonathan@rmit nod
< connected: Bwern. Total: 43 >
Hazel_Guest materializes out of thin air.
Pinstriped_Guest says, "Get over yourself maddog."
Mulder sticks a battery into Grommit and watches him explode.
Tom_R grins at Grommit. "Just watvhed 'A Close Shave' again the other day.
Pinstriped_Guest Woohoo!
Grommit grins, me and my mate Shaun.
Orange_Guest removes the strips from the Pinstriped guest
Tom_R acks. "Watched"
vivian nods to Polka_Dot. Oh yes....more even.
< connected: Azure_Guest. Total: 44 >
Polka_Dot_Guest very interseting!
Azure_Guest materializes out of thin air.
Pinstriped_Guest kicks vivians legs out from underneath her.
Tari [to adeleg]: there isn't anything in here to make people stop talking, but likely if you point out that you're severely outnumbered most people will slow down.
Orange_Guest returns to leaning on the wall
vivian [Polka_Dot]: I hope all our ppl get here....should be worth it.
vivian thrunks down onto the floor.
vivian says, "Ouch!"
Polka_Dot_Guest what is a ppl
< connected: Lavender_Guest. Total: 45 >
maddog says, "ok its almost time"
vivian pulls herself up again and glares at Pinstriped_Guest.
Pinstriped_Guest says, "a purple people licker."
Orange_Guest helps vivian up
< connected: Teal_Guest. Total: 46 >
Lavender_Guest materializes out of thin air.
vivian [polka_Dot]: it's people (shorthand)
Grommit says, "ppl ==people, and not parts per lit(er/re)"
Tom_R [to Polka_Dot_Guest]: smiles. "ppl = [people"
Bwern materializes out of thin air.
vivian grins at Gromit
Pinstriped_Guest slaps Orange Guest for getting involved.
Esq. materializes out of thin air.
Tom_R hi5s Esq..
Teal_Guest materializes out of thin air.
maddog says, "is this session going to be logged, any admin?"
Tom_R wonders when the panel starts, too
Orange_Guest says, "we have a gromit and a Grommit, so much for copyright infringement"
Amy [to adeleg]: people are pretty good, but this is the normal style of things
vivian nods to Tom_R.
woodsy materializes out of thin air.
jonathan@rmit says, "How many guest colours are there, anyway?"
< connected: Mr.Zoliparia. Total: 47 >
< connected: Yin_Yang. Total: 48 >
Tom_R hi5s woodsy.
Orange_Guest says, "4.72"
Mr.Zoliparia materializes out of thin air.
woodsy waves at tom_r and pushes his way thru crowd till they hi5
Polka_Dot_Guest [JONATHON]:WHO CARES
Violet_Guest . o O ( Not less than 1. )
Grommit [to Orange_Guest]: hehe, I just mistyped it and it stuck :)
Mr.Zoliparia waves to everyone.
Mulder says, "There are 33 guest accounts."
Esq. waves at Amy and Tom_R
Yin_Yang materializes out of thin air.
Polka_Dot_Guest what up zoliparia
woodsy says, "to tom_r 'Hello"
Amy [to Mulder]: we can create more on the fly if we use em all :-)
Tom_R smiles. "Amy has been very busy registering new folks lately. Membership drive appears to be asuccessful"
Teal_Guest says, ""
< connected: Cerulean_Guest. Total: 49 >
Amy [to Mulder]: we just need new color names
jonathan@rmit says, "Col"
Amy clears her throat
Mulder was pondering getting an account like... a year ago, but didn't fit the 'research' description.
Amy says, "Thank you all for coming"
Grommit smiles.
vivian applauds.
Violet_Guest claps.
< connected: Plaid_Guest. Total: 50 >
Polka_Dot_Guest cries
Amy says, "As many of you know, these sort of forums can be chaotic"
nealmcb perks up
< connected: Pink_Guest. Total: 51 >
woodsy says, "to tom_r "you shouild try Chris Evans breakfast show on Virgin, thats funny"
Mr.Zoliparia . o O (Well done, Amy!)
Pinstriped_Guest says, "Says Oh my God."
Amy says, "They work better as brainstorming sessions often than as decision-making vehicles"
Polka_Dot_Guest hip-hip horray
Paul smiles.
Amy says, "Are they really useful for business purposes?"
Tom_R suggests everyone but Amy and panel go into "Whisper or Page" modes.
woodsy looks at all the guests and whistles
Pinstriped_Guest says, "How do you do that?"
Amy says, "what I find particularly interesting in this case is that our form and content are related"
Amy says, "while we're talking about this issue, we're also trying to do it!"
Guillermo materializes out of thin air.
woodsy says, "to pinstriped_guest "do what?"
Polka_Dot_Guest shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Pinstriped_Guest says, "Go into whisper mode?"
< connected: Jade_Guest. Total: 52 >
< connected: Green_Guest. Total: 53 >
Amy [to woodsy]: use a vr environment (a text based one) for business/practical purposes
Jade_Guest materializes out of thin air.
Pinstriped_Guest growls at Polka Dot Guest.
woodsy says, "to tom_r "thats true..whats the panel???"
Amy says, "I could have chosen the conference room that strictly controls who can speak when"
Polka_Dot_Guest amy...focus..do not think of the crowd
Jade_Guest says, "say hello"
Amy says, "but I find the chaos is occasionally enlightening, and being over-controlling is perhaps misunderstanding the strengths of this medium"
Jade_Guest says, ""
Amy says, "it's a great honor to have here today our three featured panelists"
woodsy says, "to amy "nice idea..very useful for cross atlan=tic idea sessions"
Jade_Guest wa:wave hello to everyone
leibs says, "so Amy, how are we going to proceed?"
Cerulean_Guest materializes out of thin air.
Amy says, "Paul Dourish from Xerox PARC"
Amy says, "and Adele Goldberg and David Leibs from Neometron (in alphabetical order)"
Tom_R plans to log, if, that's OK with everyone?
Paul says, "Hi"
jonathan@rmit claps wildly
Amy says, "They've each done a lot of foundational research in this area"
Amy says, "this afternoon we're going to give each of them a chance to make a few introductory remarks"
woodsy woodsy nods sagely and then claps
Amy says, "I've asked them not necessarily to propose solutions"
Amy says, "but to identify what the key problems are"
Amy says, "after they've each spoken, I'll open the floor for questions"
Amy says, "this room does have one special feature--the about verb"
woodsy disappears suddenly for parts unknown.
You are talking about procedure Paul will go first.
Amy [to Tom_R]: yes, and we really should make that clear
Your Meme Tag comes to life, and offers Tom_R meme #47, ''Substitute 'damn' every time you're...'
Pinstriped_Guest says, "Somebody something."
>:wonders about the lag
Amy wonders about the lag

>look
Summer Conference Room
A warm, sunny room with a table and plenty of chairs. Outside, the trees along Memorial Drive are a verdant green and pleasure boats are skittering across the Charles River. A warm breeze enters through an open window.

Obvious exits: out to STS Centre 2nd Level Hall
Guest, Gold_Guest, Fuchsia_Guest, Gray_Guest, Mulder, Polka_Dot_Guest, Amber_Guest, maddog, Grommit, Tari, Orange_Guest, Striped_Guest, Ochre_Guest, vivian, JohnT, Neon_Guest, mday, nealmcb, jonathan@rmit, Violet_Guest, leibs, Indigo_Guest, Paul, taylor, adeleg, Pinstriped_Guest, Tom_R, Hazel_Guest, Azure_Guest, Lavender_Guest, Bwern, Esq., Teal_Guest, Mr.Zoliparia, Yin_Yang, Guillermo, Jade_Guest, and Cerulean_Guest are standing here.
You see Plaque Showing How to Use This Room here.

Pinstriped_Guest says, "That is, somebody say something."
Grommit gets hit by the lag :(
Pink_Guest materializes out of thin air.
Tom_R has noticed some lag, too.
Orange_Guest slays the evil Lag-Monster
Amy says [about procedure Paul will go first], "type "read plaque" to see how it works"
Pinstriped_Guest says, "Grommit gets hit by the back of my hand" and smacks Grommit."
Amy says [about procedure Paul will go first], "you can use it to clarify what topic you're responding to"
Amy [to Paul]: would you like to start?

Paul says, "Okay. I have a couple of points I, eh, prepared earlier..."
Paul says, "Three things struck me about the introduction which Amy posted"
Paul says, "to the mailing list -- one point about metaphors, one about settings"
Paul says, "and one about technology."
Paul eyes the lag warily.
Pinstriped_Guest says, "Hello?\"
woodsy materializes out of thin air.
Paul says, "Okay, on metaphors:"
Polka_Dot_Guest whats the deal
Orange_Guest warily lags the eyes.
Cerulean_Guest says [about lags], "the lag is distracting"
Pinstriped_Guest drifts off to sleep, snuggling up on vivian's lap.
< disconnected: Garth. Total: 51 >

> @who
Member name Connected Idle time Location
----------- --------- --------- --------
Grommit (#10980) 54 minutes 0 seconds Summer Conference Room
taylor (#1354) 57 minutes a second Summer Conference Room
Orange_Guest (#344) an hour a second Summer Conference Room
Plaid_Guest (#122) 11 minutes 6 seconds purple-crayon.media.mit.edu
Cerulean_Guest (#488) 12 minutes 6 seconds Summer Conference Room
Teal_Guest (#347) 14 minutes 6 seconds Summer Conference Room
Pinstriped_Guest (#688) 19 minutes 6 seconds Summer Conference Room
woodsy (#11161) 19 minutes 6 seconds Summer Conference Room
Indigo_Guest (#698) 24 minutes 6 seconds Summer Conference Room
Paul (#559) 24 minutes 6 seconds Summer Conference Room
Amy (#75) 25 minutes 6 seconds Summer Conference Room
Violet_Guest (#184) 26 minutes 6 seconds Summer Conference Room
jonathan@rmit (#11376) 27 minutes 6 seconds Summer Conference Room
mday (#1849) 30 minutes 6 seconds Summer Conference Room
Zachary (#8806) 33 minutes 6 seconds purple-crayon.media.mit.edu
Polka_Dot_Guest (#320) an hour 6 seconds Summer Conference Room
nealmcb (#11388) an hour 6 seconds Summer Conference Room
Gold_Guest (#360) 2 hours 6 seconds Summer Conference Room
Guillermo (#11385) 4 hours 6 seconds Summer Conference Room
Tari (#2921) 20 hours 6 seconds Summer Conference Room
Bwern (#11027) 15 minutes 2 minutes Summer Conference Room
JohnT (#11260) 38 minutes 3 minutes Summer Conference Room
maddog (#9836) 26 minutes 3 minutes Summer Conference Room
Mr.Zoliparia (#11419) 13 minutes 3 minutes Summer Conference Room
Striped_Guest (#357) 36 minutes 3 minutes Summer Conference Room
Amber_Guest (#700) 59 minutes 3 minutes Summer Conference Room
adeleg (#11409) 20 minutes 3 minutes Summer Conference Room
vivian (#10650) 36 minutes 3 minutes Summer Conference Room
leibs (#11418) 24 minutes 3 minutes Summer Conference Room
Tom_R (#10560) 18 minutes 4 minutes Summer Conference Room
Pink_Guest (#359) 11 minutes 4 minutes Summer Conference Room
Jade_Guest (#701) 9 minutes 4 minutes Summer Conference Room
Ochre_Guest (#689) 36 minutes 4 minutes Summer Conference Room
Fuchsia_Guest (#685) an hour 4 minutes Summer Conference Room
Neon_Guest (#713) 32 minutes 5 minutes Summer Conference Room
Cobblers (#9147) an hour 7 minutes Window Cubicle
Yin_Yang (#11415) 13 minutes 7 minutes Summer Conference Room
Green_Guest (#121) 9 minutes 8 minutes The Back Room
Azure_Guest (#186) 15 minutes 10 minutes Summer Conference Room
Mulder (#11410) 3 hours 10 minutes Summer Conference Room
Hazel_Guest (#690) 43 minutes 10 minutes Summer Conference Room
Esq. (#10748) 14 minutes 13 minutes Summer Conference Room
jaime (#2) 19 minutes 13 minutes [new player registration]
Lavender_Guest (#712) 15 minutes 14 minutes Summer Conference Room
Gray_Guest (#691) an hour an hour Summer Conference Room
Barry (#918) 4 hours 4 hours Barry's Office
Olorin (#11411) 2 days 12 hours Bag End
AaJia (#11073) 13 hours 13 hours Ballroom Foyer
Guest (#113) 14 hours 14 hours Summer Conference Room
defender (#11402) a day 19 hours leafy bower

Total: 50 members, 34 of whom have been active recently.
There is only one member invisible to you.
< disconnected: GNA-Lab-link. Total: 51 >

Paul says, "Second, I wanted to say something about settings."
-----------------------------------Paul------------------------------------
It may be a mistake to think of online meetings replacing face to face
meetings. In my experience, where face to face meetings are plausible
and convenient (that is, not excessively expensive and not excessively
difficult to schedule), then they persist, being both more enjoyable
and more productive. The real value of online interaction lies in two
areas. The first is where face to face meetings are not easily
achievable; online meetings provide an opportunity where there would
otherwise be nine. The second is as an alternative channel. In our
work with media spaces, the use of video or audio connections didn't
replace other forms of contact, but augmented them and became
something quite different from an everyday meeting (and more like a
shared office or intermittently shared space).
------ Paul stops pasting ----------
Zachary materializes out of thin air.
< connected: Ivy. Total: 52 >
-----------------------------------Paul------------------------------------
It's significant that most of our experience with virtual environments
in business settings have been in fairly loose and flexible
organisations -- research labs, small software development
organisations, and so on -- ones that are often both informal and
culturally relatively homogenous. I suspect that there's a major
difference between trying to hold a code design meeting with a bunch
of programmers, and trying to hold a product program meeting with
programmers, designers, marketeers and finance folk all
together. Those can be hard enough in face to face settings!
------ Paul stops pasting ----------
Paul says, "And third, I think it's important to consider the state of the technology."
-----------------------------------Paul------------------------------------
It's important not to forget that technology is not uniformally
distributed throughout the world. Right now, I'm sitting in a
high-tech research lab in Palo Alto, and I take expensive
workstations, high-bandwidth internet connections and effective
infrastructure pretty much for granted. When I was in England,
participating in US-based MOOs was much harder, through a combination
of time zone factors, congested internet trunks and much longer
round-trip lags. A technology which does not deal with iniquitous
infrastructure simply isn't going to go anywhere, and there are some
serious design issue which arise there (MOO is a pretty middling
technology for long-distance work.)
------ Paul stops pasting ----------
Paul says, "I got lagged pretty badly in the middle there, sorry."
Neon_Guest has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Neon_Guest.
< disconnected: Neon_Guest. Total: 51 >
Paul says, "Those were the topics which struck me right off, based on some of"
Paul says, "my own experiences with these environments -- I think I'll leave those"
woodsy from London is very jet lagged..never mind
Paul says, "as points we might want to discuss, and stop there for now."
Polka_Dot_Guest [B[B[B[Bpage stop
Paul stops.
woodsy has disconnected.
Amy says [about procedure Paul will go first], "thanks Paul!"
< connected: GNA-Lab-link. Total: 51 >
Amy oopses about the 'about'
Pinstriped_Guest says, "Woohoo paul!!"
Amy looks to Adele. "Adele, do you have a few introductory things to say?"
Polka_Dot_Guest says [about erickson cd], "pauls having trouble"
Pinstriped_Guest says, "Having trouble doing what?"
< connected: Turquoise_Guest. Total: 52 >

adeleg says, ""Hi. I did not prepare in advance for cutting and pasting but hopefully I can type faster than the lag.""
Turquoise_Guest materializes out of thin air.
adeleg says, ""In looking at a MOO for business, there is obviously the social question.""
Amy smiles
Pinstriped_Guest gags
Plaid_Guest materializes out of thin air.
Polka_Dot_Guest obviously
adeleg says, ""The issue is simple: is there a difference in how people act when doing business or being in business that is incompatible with the chaos of a MOO?""
Pinstriped_Guest [to Plaid Guest] We clash.
adeleg says, ""Complementing that issue is whether the fact that there is in fact structure to a MOO via places and objects can lend the kind of structured communications appropriate to a MOO?""
JohnT . o O [ ? ]
Polka_Dot_Guest laughs
Polka_Dot_Guest speaking english!
adeleg says, ""Remember, I am just listing issues...I type slow enough that I cannot read your comments while typing which is a little disconcerting. I know a lot of business folks who would not feel comfortable here!!""
Pinstriped_Guest says, "Out! Out, damn business folks!"
< connected: Flame_Guest. Total: 53 >
The housekeeper arrives to cart woodsy off to bed.
>:asks the guests to please keep the chatter down
Amy asks the guests to please keep the chatter down

>@who
Member name Connected Idle time Location
----------- --------- --------- --------
Amy (#75) 32 minutes 0 seconds Summer Conference Room
Zachary (#8806) 41 minutes 3 seconds Summer Conference Room
Cobblers (#9147) an hour 4 seconds Window Cubicle
Flame_Guest (#185) 35 seconds 18 seconds purple-crayon.media.mit.edu
Cerulean_Guest (#488) 19 minutes 18 seconds Summer Conference Room
Violet_Guest (#184) 34 minutes 25 seconds Summer Conference Room
Tom_R (#10560) 25 minutes 27 seconds Summer Conference Room
taylor (#1354) an hour 33 seconds Summer Conference Room
Pinstriped_Guest (#688) 26 minutes 42 seconds Summer Conference Room
Polka_Dot_Guest (#320) an hour 42 seconds Summer Conference Room
adeleg (#11409) 27 minutes a minute Summer Conference Room
Ivy (#10964) 7 minutes a minute Window Cubicle
JohnT (#11260) 45 minutes a minute Summer Conference Room
Gold_Guest (#360) 2 hours 2 minutes Summer Conference Room
nealmcb (#11388) an hour 2 minutes Summer Conference Room
Turquoise_Guest (#358) 3 minutes 2 minutes Summer Conference Room
Orange_Guest (#344) an hour 2 minutes Summer Conference Room
Teal_Guest (#347) 22 minutes 2 minutes Summer Conference Room
Plaid_Guest (#122) 19 minutes 2 minutes Summer Conference Room
Bwern (#11027) 22 minutes 2 minutes Summer Conference Room
Mr.Zoliparia (#11419) 21 minutes 3 minutes Summer Conference Room
Paul (#559) 32 minutes 5 minutes Summer Conference Room
Amber_Guest (#700) an hour 5 minutes Summer Conference Room
vivian (#10650) 43 minutes 6 minutes Summer Conference Room
Indigo_Guest (#698) 31 minutes 7 minutes Summer Conference Room
leibs (#11418) 31 minutes 7 minutes Summer Conference Room
Grommit (#10980) an hour 7 minutes Summer Conference Room
jonathan@rmit (#11376) 34 minutes 7 minutes Summer Conference Room
mday (#1849) 37 minutes 7 minutes Summer Conference Room
Guillermo (#11385) 4 hours 7 minutes Summer Conference Room
Tari (#2921) 20 hours 7 minutes Summer Conference Room
maddog (#9836) 34 minutes 10 minutes Summer Conference Room
Striped_Guest (#357) 43 minutes 10 minutes Summer Conference Room
Pink_Guest (#359) 19 minutes 11 minutes Summer Conference Room
Jade_Guest (#701) 17 minutes 11 minutes Summer Conference Room
Ochre_Guest (#689) 44 minutes 11 minutes Summer Conference Room
Fuchsia_Guest (#685) an hour 11 minutes Summer Conference Room
Yin_Yang (#11415) 21 minutes 15 minutes Summer Conference Room
Green_Guest (#121) 17 minutes 15 minutes The Back Room
Azure_Guest (#186) 23 minutes 17 minutes Summer Conference Room
Mulder (#11410) 3 hours 17 minutes Summer Conference Room
Hazel_Guest (#690) 50 minutes 17 minutes Summer Conference Room
Esq. (#10748) 22 minutes 20 minutes Summer Conference Room
jaime (#2) 26 minutes 20 minutes [new player registration]
Lavender_Guest (#712) 22 minutes 22 minutes Summer Conference Room
Gray_Guest (#691) an hour an hour Summer Conference Room
Barry (#918) 4 hours 4 hours Barry's Office
Olorin (#11411) 2 days 12 hours Bag End
AaJia (#11073) 13 hours 13 hours Ballroom Foyer
Guest (#113) 14 hours 14 hours Summer Conference Room
defender (#11402) a day 19 hours leafy bower

Total: 51 members, 21 of whom have been active recently.
There are 2 members invisible to you.
adeleg says, ""The second issue I want to bring up is about systems focus versus socializing. A business is a system--parts and relations, maneuvering to be different parts (roles, actions) and have different relations. There is an interesting question about whether a business system can be appropriately constructed and maintained, in the interest of the business, in a MOO.""
Flame_Guest materializes out of thin air.
adeleg says, ""I will let David add to the social issue, but close by commenting that most business projects are not formalizable independent of the social, which is why we believe that the MOO ideas are indeed important to business.""

Summer Conference Room
A warm, sunny room with a table and plenty of chairs. Outside, the trees along Memorial Drive are a verdant green and pleasure boats are skittering across the Charles River. A warm breeze enters through an open window.

Obvious exits: out to STS Centre 2nd Level Hall
Guest, Gold_Guest, Fuchsia_Guest, Gray_Guest, Mulder, Polka_Dot_Guest, Amber_Guest, maddog, Grommit, Tari, Orange_Guest, Striped_Guest, Ochre_Guest, vivian, JohnT, mday, nealmcb, jonathan@rmit, Violet_Guest, leibs, Indigo_Guest, Paul, taylor, adeleg, Pinstriped_Guest, Tom_R, Hazel_Guest, Azure_Guest, Lavender_Guest, Bwern, Esq., Teal_Guest, Mr.Zoliparia, Yin_Yang, Guillermo, Jade_Guest, Cerulean_Guest, Pink_Guest, Zachary, Turquoise_Guest, Plaid_Guest, and Flame_Guest are standing here.
You see Plaque Showing How to Use This Room and PLEASE NOTE here.

Pinstriped_Guest says, "What the heck is formalizable?"

leibs says, "I think the important issues for using virtual worlds in business are "
leibs says, "social ones"

>look paul
A hacker type, about 5'9, with blue eyes, a red beard, long brown hair tied in a ponytail which reaches down to his waist, and a mild Scottish accent.
He is awake, but has been staring off into space for 8 minutes.
Carrying:
Paul's slate

>look adele
You see a player who should type '@describe me as ...'.
It is awake, but has been staring off into space for a minute.

>look leibs
an old guy with happy eyes
It is awake and looks alert.

Teal_Guest says, "in a traditional sense, though, doesn't socializing require physical interaction?"""
Zachary thinks bandwidth (in the meaning of information transfer rate
leibs says, "I will list just a few ieas so we can get to the discussion."
Zachary is important.
leibs says, "The challenge is to make the worlds both useful and habitable so that they will actually be used."
Zachary says, "constraining people in the same office to use a MOO to communicate instead of walking down the hall is not going to work."
leibs says, "The world must be compelling to a team of workers."
Polka_Dot_Guest says [about erickson cd], "what about the notion that most srious computer users are plain old weird"
Cerulean_Guest says [about lags], "..,"
leibs says, "A virtual world should let team members create Objects that can be used for collaboration (this is where I think a Moo has possibilities)."
Pinstriped_Guest says, "Jesus, just get up off your sorry asses and actually talk to someone instead of promoting social ineptityude in the technology and business worlds."
leibs says, "The Objects would be used in the work process as mediums for both doing work and co-ordinating that work."
Zachary says, "sure, but creating Objects is hard work, and not central to Getting The Job Done, which is what business is all about."
Striped_Guest has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Striped_Guest.
Polka_Dot_Guest says [about erickson cd], "moo, you think they are using moo's in oprahs trial Moo Moo"
leibs says, "A virtual world should give members a shared context for meaning. Meaning doen not exist outside of some context."
leibs says, "Thats all."
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Pinstriped_Guest says, "Hello? How about some English here please?"
Barry materializes out of thin air.
Cerulean_Guest says, "a work group can create proptocols to use a MOO"
Amy raises an eyebrow at Pinstriped. "Please watch your tone"
Cerulean_Guest says, "social protco"
Pinstriped_Guest Removes Amy's eyebrow hair by hair.
Amy says [about procedure Paul will go first], "David, shall we move on to questions?"
Cerulean_Guest says, "I mean social conventions "
Cerulean_Guest says, "that can make it easier (or hearder)..."
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Zachary says, "no one will USE 'protocols to use a MOO' if it's something complicated enough that they have to learn."
Cerulean_Guest says, "a table does not create a a meeting"
Cerulean_Guest says, "but people create meetings in rooms w/tables :-)"
leibs says, "Yes, we should move on to the questions."
Amy apologizes for the upcoming save to disk
mday [Amy]: are we allowed to talk yet?
Teal_Guest says, "What kind of projects are people coordinating on that spread across timezones that they need a moo though? what happpened to the phone?"
Amy says [about procedure Paul will go first], "well, thanks very much for those introductory remarks!"
Cerulean_Guest says, "sorry, protoccol is the wrong term here ... think social sonventions"
Pinstriped_Guest says, "Woohoo, Pual!!"
*** Saving to disk. All activity will stop for a few minutes. ***
*** Last checkpoint took 17 seconds. ***
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Polka_Dot_Guest thanks vivian, i am having a hoot!
Amy grrs at the about that won't go away
Tom_R thinks protocol CAN be the right term, but, team members would need to be familiar with provess

Cyan_Guest materializes out of thin air.
adeleg says, ""I am interested in knowing whether those of you who feel it is okay to be rude are doing it as a test or to make the very point the panelist all made--that the overtone of a business is more formal protocol, like it or not, and a MOO is not supposed to encourage such old fashioned behavior?""

Teal_Guest says, "That is the trouble with Moos... you get people who are not interested in a productive environment to ruin the experience for those who are trying to accomplish something"
Tom_R acks. "That was supposed to be 'proCess' "
Pinstriped_Guest says, "Oh."
Amy [to Adele]: the affordances here are certainly different
maddog says, "that is an interesting point"
mday has always felt that synchronous textual communication of this sort can provide an alternative channel for all kinds of groups and organizations. Something about bouncing ideas off each other in text provides and interesting synergy which I have found very helpful in my work.
Zachary apologizes, wasn't intending to be rude; came in late and thot we were in discussion.
Polka_Dot_Guest says [about erickson cd], "why were moo's started, for games, in society we separate business from pleasure"
Teal_Guest says, ""
Amy says [about procedure Paul will go first], "People can't see one another's faces"
You are talking about nothing in particular.
Amy apologizes for the lag
mday says, "But it's true that I use it only with people I can't meet face to face."
Pinstriped_Guest says, "The very concept of MOOing is ludicrous. The amount of discourse shared here could have been accomplishedin a three minute conference call. For those in a technical field, one would know and understand the expression: "Tim is Money.""
JohnT notes that MOO's have been shown to be useful in 'serious' situations
Tom_R says, "And, depending on the nature of the project, a created object CAN be useful in getting the job done""
mday nods to Amy. And in fact, I found with my students that they did not respect the others on the MOO, people they had never seen or heard, as much as their classmates who they could see and hear.
Amy says, "in answer to adele's question, it's interesting to note the difference between here between anonymous (guests) and identified participants"
Tari [to adeleg]: i think that what you're seeing here is people new to the environment; that's all. part of what's productive about it also creates playfulness, and that can seem rude to people already accustomed to the moo, or who came in with certain expectations.
Tari says, "if we all met every week or something, after awhile we'd have worked all that out and be more productive."
Paul says, "I think this is the issue that someone was bringing up about protocols, too."
Amy nods to Tari and to mday
Tom_R nods in agreement to Paul
Cerulean_Guest says, "exactly"
Paul says, "Protocols do not need to be enforced, but emerge from practiced interactions."
mday says, "And there are always those who haven't really tried it out enough, who will surely call it ludicrous."
adeleg says, ""I think that there is a very exciting opportunity to use a MOO to allow or permit or some such word...to allow people to participate who otherwise would not. The issue for me in a MOO is whether anonymity is what would give people in business such permission or just being there?""
Pinstriped_Guest says, "Lets abolish the anynimity (sp), my name is Jim Mackenzie."
Paul says, "The trick is that the design of the environment both constrains and enables the emergence of one style of protocol or another."
Paul says, "We've encountered this in the design of access control mechanisms for media spaces, for instance."
Mr.Zoliparia nods to mday. Synchronous meetings have a much different flavour depending on the technology; mailing-lists, newsgroups, Notes dbs etc. all feel much the same depending more on the participants than the technology.
JohnT [to adeleg]: why would there ever be any anonymity in a business-related MUD?
Mulder says, "After dealing with people for a while in a MOO environment you tend to either establish a good relationship with them built on respect, or you hate their guts."
Polka_Dot_Guest says [about erickson cd], "i think it is hard to get thorugh to most people that this is a good idea, i for one am a student, (at a very repitable university!!!) and i use a computer to word process, make presentations, etc. i am in the business school, and we even have a MIS clas"
mday thinks it really depends upon your purpose. This is ideal for idea-generation, but not really for quick decision making. And it's best for groupthink, not for heirarchically bound organizational decisions.
Mulder says, "People are generally much less restrained in a text environment. It goes through their fingers before it goes through their brain."
Grommit feels it's useful to emphasise the idea of the work-day environment - something that a conference call cannot accomplish is the 'across-the-office' offhand question.
Polka_Dot_Guest says [about erickson cd], "and not once did moo's come up, it is not being taught, and it is foreign only a few (computer junkies) know about it"
Amy says, "some of the most interesting work in this area is the book Connections by Sproull and Kiesler. They found that real time chat helps more people be heard and lessons the dominance of higher-ranking participants, but also leads to disorganization and longer time to reach decisions"
Pinstriped_Guest burps aloud and says "How about that for speaking from the fingers?
nealmcb says, "I am temporarily (3 years) living 1000 miles from my work team, and MOO access has been the best means of keeping 'in touch' that I have. It is my little virtual water cooler, keeping me in touch with friends, with the rumor mill, etc. But having meetings and more formal or extended discussions is not well suited to text - phone calls, mbone connections, and physical trips are all much better for that. "
mday [Mulder]: some, yes, but it depends on your purpose, and also your perception of the importance of the impression of you formed in the minds of those listening (reading)
Tom_R says, "To answer the 'conference call statement' - while waht you say may be true, Jim, conference calls are more expensive and one can't easily send info directly to the opther participants' terminals, especially, if they leave for a bit""
Amy nods to neal. "And it's not an either-or situation. You can use both"
Pinstriped_Guest says, "Right on nealmcb"
Paul [to nealmcb]: I think, even in non-networked environments, we have always used a constellation of technologies to interact and collaborate.
mday does not have money for conference calls.
maddog says, "i dont know how i could have conferenced called this meeting"
taylor goes home.
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Paul says, "The issue isn't which ones will be replaced by MOO, but how it can incorporated into a rich set of existing practices"
Esq. appolo l
mday notes that this is also a pretty good recording device.
Polka_Dot_Guest says [about erickson cd], "this meeting is not important, but in business you could have called"
Mulder [to mday]: Granted. If everyone in your office is using a MOO at the same time, people who type slower will get frustrated, and tend to shy away from it.
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Grommit nods to maddog - for one thing - a conference call doesn't happen at a fixed point in space - it can be impossibly difficult to join one.
>to adele we have an interesting mix of people here--thoughtful scholars I've known for years, random people who like to burp who've wandered in off the net, and random people who've wandered in off the net who have surprisingly thoughtful things to say. You'd never get a group as mixed as this at a real conference
Amy [to adeleg]: we have an interesting mix of people here--thoughtful scholars I've known for years, random people who like to burp who've wandered in off the net, and random people who've wandered in off the net who have surprisingly thoughtful things to say. You'd never get a group as mixed as this at a real conference
Paul says, "It has some particular features -- persistence, history, malleability, access -- which mean that it can occupy a new niche in that range of technoloies."
Mr.Zoliparia says [about groupthink vs. hierarchy], "The 'water cooler' is one end of a spectrum of how teams work together: informal, colocated. Formal, distributed hierarchy is another end. Having just read Lipnack&Stamps "Virtual Teams" book I'm convinced that the business world is waking up to the *value* of fluid groupthink."
mday [Mulder]: which is why large groups are often unproductive and frustrating to some.
adeleg says, ""To answer the question about anonymity: One of the concerns in business is monitoring, such as monitoring conversations, keeping the conversations as a history and then sharing the history. Anonymity is a way to remove concerns about monitoring. As you might know, business managers like to watch workers in ways that are truly obnoxious but justified by wanting to be able to understand productivity (a notion I do not support).""
Pinstriped_Guest burps in Amy's ear.
Mulder [to mday]: Right. But MOO can be perfect for small groups of people who aren't located in convenient relation to each other, but want to communicate.
Cerulean_Guest says, "adele, Jay Nunnaker claims that aninymous meetings work well in business for brianstorming"
Polka_Dot_Guest says [about erickson cd], "WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THIS MEETING, TO TALK ABOUT MOO'S WITH PEOPLE WHO OBVIOUSLY USE AND LIKE MOOS, WE ARE TALKING TO THE WRONG PEOPLE THROUGH THE WRONG FORUM, THINK ABOUT IT, YOU HAVE TO MAINSTREAM MOO USE, AND THIS IS NOT"
Paul [to adeleg]: Do you know how this interacts with the legal issues of access to resources which have, for instance, come up in email disputes?
Grommit notes that we are, as we speak, proving the point of supporting increased volume of traffic.
Amy [to Polka_Dot_Guest]: please don't shout
nealmcb says, "I think that in my type of business situation (R&D), anonymity has caused lots of hassles and reduced the opportunity for the MOO to contribute to the real work community, so I would recommend that some unambiguous identifying information is present via something like @info (for eDUcore) or @research"
Cerulean_Guest says, "and brainstorming is a *very specialized* kind of activity, not general purpose"
mday Hi 5s Mr. Zoliparia. Yes, I think we're learning about the value of this sort of groupthink to organizational thought and communication. But for only some purposes.
Pinstriped_Guest says, "Whoa."
Mr.Zoliparia says [about anon], "In my experience (unfocused) anonymity is very disturbing to the business management. We ran a "black:mail" forum using Notes in 1990 an it was killed."
Mulder says, "In the Ghostcore we use 'finger'."
Worg materializes out of thin air.
mday says, "Anonymity usually leads to people being rude or off-task, unfortunately."
Polka_Dot_Guest says [about erickson cd], "in business it would not be anonmyous"
Pinstriped_Guest says, "In case you haven't noticed I am no longer anonymous."
Grommit says [about MOO uses], "one of my early experiments was to use the MOO as the permanently open channel, to allow users to launch more specific conversations (such as video conferencing, slide sharing, etc)."
Grommit says [about MOO uses], "and we"
Yin_Yang says, "Isn't the whole poingt (or part of the point of water cooler sessions is to encourage to "off task?""
adeleg says, ""I do not know the real consequences of anonymity although Sherry Turkle and others are providing a lot of input. What I do know is that with anonymity you cannot build a sense of real community...who never know who or what you are interacting with.""
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Tom_R [to pinestripe]: You're still anonymous from the standpoint of histrorical context for interactions here.
Grommit says [about MOO uses], "are now seeing people using things like ICQ for exactly that - a low bandwidth notification and congregation mechanism."
Cyan_Guest says [about anonymity], "Anonymity is important (it seems) to MOO as a pastime, but there's nothing to preclude adding mechanisms that avoid anonymity in a business setting."
leibs says, "While many of you are anonymous I am starting to know each of you a little better"
The housekeeper arrives to remove Guest.
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Cerulean_Guest says, "*anoin"
Pinstriped_Guest [to Tom_R] I realize.
Polka_Dot_Guest says [about erickson cd], "to me, when i think MOO, i think COW's"
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JohnT nods to adeleg ... and this has been shown in MOO's where anonymity is not permitted
Mr.Zoliparia says [about anon], "You must distinguish anonymity from accountability."
Guest materializes out of thin air.
Magenta_Guest materializes out of thin air.
Paul [to adeleg]: There is, at the very least, a need for identity even in cases of anonymity. That is, I needn't know who you are, but trying to build up any meaningful dialog or relationship implies that I should always recognise you as the same person you were yesterday. However, I don't think we know enough about large-scale anonymous interactions to predict much about real-world behaviours.
Mulder says, "MOO's problems tend to be more in the interface than the ideal. MOO's a great implimentation of a text-based virtual world, but if people can't access it easily, there's no hope of its widespread use."
Cerulean_Guest says, "anonymity is not *all or noting* ... in business .. anonymous comm can be scheduled as an option"
Pink_Guest says, "I agree with @whois"
Pinstriped_Guest kicks Magenta Guest in the head and says hello.
mday says, "anonymity only works when you have serious committment, and you want to get ideas out that people might be embarrassed to admit if their identity were known."
Ochre_Guest says, ""hmm""
Polka_Dot_Guest says [about erickson cd], "i am anonymous, to an extent, my teacher knows i am one of her 20 students, and i am still talking like this"
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Pinstriped_Guest says, "What is erickson cd?"
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adeleg says, ""You comment does a nice job of stating what I intended when I used the word community." to Paul"
Grommit apologises for his off-topic thread, through the horrid lag :(
(from Summer Conference Room) Tari nods
Polka_Dot_Guest says [about erickson cd], "no idea pinny"
Paul nods to adeleg.
Flame_Guest says, ""We should be careful of confusing "anonymity" with identity persistence: all the benefits people have discussed come from identity persistence. That identity may have only a partial (or no) bearing to one's "real" identity."
Jade_Guest says, "Pinny?"
Cerulean_Guest says, "Adele, I agree that anonymity does not build community ... but it's more complex than +/- anonymity"
Tom_R [to Grommit]: I don't think it was off-topic
Pinstriped_Guest [to Polka Dot] Then why do you keep talking about it?
leibs says, "In a Moo you have an obligation to talk."
Amy says, "so, I'm interested in hearing from Adele and David, does this experience change your mind at all about any of the design work you've been doing?"
jonathan@rmit says [about anon], "Does the idea of no accountability come back to Paul's notion of the 'alternative channel?'"
JohnT says [about anonymity], "actually, I somewhat surprised that the topic of anonymity would come up in a discussion of using a MUD in a business situation"
leibs says, "I am normally much more quiet"
jonathan@rmit says [about anon], "What did you mean by alternative channel, Paul?"
Cerulean_Guest says, "a workgroup can effetcivelky enforce clear identities, if desiered"
Worg goes home.
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Cerulean_Guest anods to John T
Paul [to jonathan@rmit]: I meant one which is used in addition to other forms of communication. Often the virtual water cooler, or some similar use; perhaps a more interactive form of bulletin board. But not a replacement for phone calls, for face to face meetings, etc.
Pink_Guest has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Pink_Guest.
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Esq. says [about anonymity], "in the business setting, some measure of anonymity can be critical in providing feedback to superiors where suborndinates fear the 'kill the messenger' syndrome"
Tom_R thinks there are definite times anonimity would be good in business situation. "We use it on surevys, for instance"
Mr.Zoliparia says [about infrastructure], "Paul, you said some stuff about infrastructures at the start; MOOing from England at midnight isn't an ideal business environment. Care to expand on your initial comments?"
Grommit smiles, as his thread becomes on-topic
Polka_Dot_Guest says, "are we not just getting used to email, give us time"
adeleg says, ""yes, of course a sense of community is more. Let me switch off of anonymity and discuss structure. Amy Joe Kim talks about community as having purpose, a host, a set of rules, ... her recommended structure. Businesses have structure as well. Can we represent these sufficiently to allow a MOO to be an extension of the business's community?""
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Paul says, "The uses to which a MOO might be put in a business setting are not necessarily either those which replace other business activities, or which reproduce what we all like to do when we MOO."
Indigo_Guest has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Indigo_Guest.
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Polka_Dot_Guest likes it better when evryone was mad
mday says, "yes on anonymity, and yes on using MOO/synchronous to SUPPLEMENT not replace other channels."
Red_Guest materializes out of thin air.
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Pinstriped_Guest punches Polka Dot in the gut and screams, "Get mad!!!"
Teal_Guest says, "Mooing will always be hampered by the slowness of typing and reading""
taylor materializes out of thin air.
Polka_Dot_Guest says, "bye bye, love peace and MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"
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Pinstriped_Guest says, "MOO"
Polka_Dot_Guest has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Polka_Dot_Guest.
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Pinstriped_Guest says, "MOO"
Cyan_Guest [to Teal_Guest]: Until audio & video are added.
Pinstriped_Guest says, "MOO"
Amy says, "let me ask another question... in what ways is a graphical MUD different froma text-based one in its ability to support business activity?"
Esq. says [about anonymity], "also in evaluating new product dieas during the idea generation phase it helps to open the door for more lateral thinking."
Tom_R thinks pasting could be used extensively to reduce the typing reading time.
Violet_Guest [to Cyan_Guest]: or voice-rec typing.
JohnT says [about anonymity], "typing in the MOO can be replaced by talking to your computer and it sending the text...makes it nice"
Teal_Guest says, "If audio and video are added... it's not really a Moo anymore... it's just a conference call where you can see people."
Ochre_Guest says, ""[to Teal_Guest] What would happen if we introduced voic recognition?""
mday does not want audio and video. I think there is something very important and different in the ways we exchange ideas in text.
creeper materializes out of thin air.
Amy grins and notes that mday is a writing teacher
Paul says, "Graphical MUDs can set a context for interaction much better. A number of people have commented that it's hard to know what kind of interaction you're meant to be having when you don't have that sort of context."
Flame_Guest says, "We should be careful of confusing "anonymity" with identity persistence: all the benefits people have discussed come from identity persistence. That identity may have only a partial (or no) bearing to one's "real" identity."audio and video does not make this just a conference call"
Mulder [to mday]: Agreed. There's something much more 'raw' about the medium.
Tom_R agrees with mday
adeleg says, "graphics""
JohnT nays audio...not gonna work ... it's important to have the text coming separately
mday says, "and I want to leave this channel open. But of course I teach writing, as AMy notes..."
Grommit says [about graphical mud], "the most significant change to me is in the speed of discourse - with a graphical interface, communication can become much slower but richer."
Teal_Guest says, "I was always slowed down in this discussion becuase I read slow as hell... I can type extremely fast, but it's the reading that kills me..""
Paul says, "On the other hand, graphical MUDs also, I suspect, emphasise the real-time and immediate, rather than the asynchronous and persistant, which I think is an important feature of MUDs."
Amy agrees with Flame about identity persistence
leibs says, "Amy, by graphical Mud do you mean nicely formated text?"
Mr.Zoliparia says [about structure], "Adeleg (oops, slop typist): IMO, yes. "Community" is a hot topic for companies on the Web (because they see it as a way to keep customers coming back); but in fact it's one of the *deepest* ways in which a company can glue itself to external constituents."
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Cyan_Guest [to mday]: I agree, to an extent, but leaving it text only benefits those who are good with writing, with typing...
Amy [to leibs]: no, I mean with a graphical representation of people and places
Violet_Guest [to Teal_Guest]: same problem here. I step away for 15 seconds and spend 3 minutes catching up.
Mulder says, "Graphical muds tend to look like games, however."
Grommit says [about graphical mud], "on the other hand, when you reach the limit of a graphical channel, communication can become complicated - whereas english as a descriptive mechanism bends much more before it breaks."
mday says, "yeah it's raw. Even been labled "tertiary orality" (Crump). I like the rawness. I learn a lot from it."
Amy [to leibs]: but of course a font or two would help ;-)
Paul says, "From my point of view, the experiences at PARC with audio and video in MUDs were confusing -- it's very hard to combine the metaphors you get."
Pinstriped_Guest says, "I'm sure you all wil be terribly disappointed, but I'm leaving. Good bye. No hard feelings."
JohnT nods a big YES to MrZoliparia
Mr.Zoliparia doesn't rate graphical stuff like V-chat; the extra context doesn't link to interesting content.
Cyan_Guest [to Teal_Guest]: You need a text-to-audio translator.
adeleg says, ""I would guess that the significance of graphics is in typography and layout, a way to separate out the different threads and help me read faster. I am losing much of this conversation because of the scrolling text and need to type at the same time.""
Teal_Guest says, "What makes that different then a phone call then????""
creeper agrees with mr.zoli
AEnigma materializes out of thin air.
>to teal spatial metaphor, sense of place
Pinstriped_Guest belches a lound and vile smelling goodbye right in Amy's ear, and slaps her.
Amy [to Teal_Guest]: spatial metaphor, sense of place
mday says, "and yes, it definitely privileges those who can type, write well, and read quickly, but I want my students to aspire to that."
Cyan_Guest [to Teal_Guest]: The persistance of objects in a virtual space?
leibs says, "I think graphical muds are harder to be expressive in."
Grommit says [about graphical mud], "also the time taken to engineer the contextual equipment (objects) for a graphical mud became quite a hurdle in my experiments."
Cyan_Guest [to Teal_Guest]: Which is implicit in a phone call, but not to any great extent.
JohnT [to adeleg]: this isn't a typical MUD'ding situation...
Amy nods to JohnT
Grommit nods to leibs, indeed.
jonathan@rmit says [about m-media muds], "imagine that a blind person is using the MOO."
Jade_Guest smiles
Teal_Guest says, "A blind person can't use any moo let alone a graphical one!?""
jonathan@rmit says [about m-media muds], "She might have the text read to her, but still type."
JohnT thinks there is actually less 'presence' in graphical muds than in pure text-based VR
Mulder says, "Until character modeling and real-time 3d rendering become pervasive, as well as some sort of input device, I doubt that graphical muds will be any more useful or compelling than games."
Pinstriped_Guest has disconnected.
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Amy says, "well, we're almost out of time"
Esq. says [about graphics], "a graphic representation can enforce spatial integrity constrains so that paths in the vr word can be followed in reverse with intutitive results."
Mulder says, "We have a blind programmer on our MOO."
Grommit says [about graphical mud], "the issue of graphicality becomes interesting when it is applied to things other than graphics - is a graphical mud for a blind user one which reads in deliberately different tones of voice ?"
JohnT applauds the guest speakers....BRAVO!
Amy says, "As I said at the start, these sessions are wonderful for brainstorming, but not so great for organized discussion"
jonathan@rmit says [about m-media muds], "As with the Web, we should know that we can't control how people 'see' the Mud"
mday thanks Paul, Adele, and Dave, and claps!!!
Jade_Guest says, "I must say goodbye"
Tom_R [to Teal_Guest]: MAcs have Text-Speech built in. Blind CAn use MOO"
Cerulean_Guest "eapllaud speakers
jonathan@rmit applauds wildly
Amy says, "let's all thank our panelists!"
maddog nods
Grommit nods, and applauds.
Jade_Guest says, "Thank you for your time"
Esq. nods in agreement
Guest says [about c], "thans""
>:claps!
Amy claps!
Mr.Zoliparia applauds. Nice work, folks.
Paul smiles. "Thanks"
Yin_Yang thanks panelists
Ochre_Guest says, ""Thanks panelist!""
mday applauses!
vivian applauds.
Grommit says [about graphical mud], "and thanks Amy for rigging up the whole shebang, so to speak."
Jade_Guest says, "It has been really nteresting"
Grommit kills the emote
Paul applauds Amy.
Esq. claps with thanks to the panelists
leibs says, "I feel like Forrest Gump"
Grommit says [about graphical mud], "the about, even."
Jade_Guest says, "Applaud amy"
adeleg says, "thank you amy and all"
Cerulean_Guest says, "Amy, thanks for organjzing!!"
Tom_R thanks all for spirited discussion
mday claps for Amy too, for doing a good job in the face of thos e irritating guests.
Jade_Guest smile at amy
jonathan@rmit says, "Thanks amy and everybody."
< disconnected: Mauve_Guest. Total: 51 >
< connected: Polka_Dot_Guest. Total: 52 >
Amy says, "thank you all for coming!"
Teal_Guest says, "Were does forest gump fit in?""
Jade_Guest has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Jade_Guest.
< disconnected: Jade_Guest. Total: 51 >
JohnT [to Amy]: thank you Amy :)
< connected: Ken. Total: 52 >
Grommit says, "slowness ?"
Amy says, "right now, our second event is about to start in the root lounge"
maddog says, "this was interesting"
< connected: Dave. Total: 53 >
Amy says, "Jay and Ben are going to talk about how they sped up the MOO!"
A bright flash of light and a puff of smoke. Tom_R has disappeared
Mulder poofs.
Mulder disappears suddenly for parts unknown.
jonathan@rmit disappears suddenly for parts unknown.
Cyan_Guest [to Amy]: How do we get there?
Yin_Yang has disconnected.
Esq. focuses his Chi and silently fades away in a cloud of mist.
Tari disappears suddenly for parts unknown.
Grommit nods, indeed. Alas, now I have consumed enough coffee to keep an army awake.
Hazel_Guest [A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[A[B[B[B[B@whois Pri@quit
Amy says, "please come back regularly, and tell your friends about MediaMOO"
Dave materializes out of thin air.
Paul [to Cyan_Guest]: try @go root lounge
Amy says, "you're encouraged to post about it to appropriate mailing lists"
< connected: Purple_Guest. Total: 53 >
JohnT disappears suddenly for parts unknown.
Violet_Guest disappears suddenly for parts unknown.
Ochre_Guest has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Ochre_Guest.
< disconnected: Ochre_Guest. Total: 52 >
taylor smiles hello to dave
Cyan_Guest [to Paul]: Danke.
Mr.Zoliparia says [about structure], "Grommit, you in UK?"
Cyan_Guest disappears suddenly for parts unknown.
Grommit nods to zoliparia
Dave [to taylor]: Hi
< connected: Ochre_Guest. Total: 53 >
Amber_Guest goes home.
taylor says, "heyya"
taylor smiles
Mr.Zoliparia says [about the coffee], "Ah, ditto."
mday [The Rhetronymical] disappears suddenly for parts unknown.
Mr.Zoliparia says, """
leibs says, "Bye."
Dave [to Amy]: Couldn't connect before:(
Cerulean_Guest says [about sleep], "time to go"
Red_Guest says, "thanks"
vivian [Amy]: Thanks for letting my class come on--we'll have lots to talk about in class tomorrow about the genre of using a moo. Sorry for the disruptions (yup! They were mine.)
nealmcb disappears suddenly for parts unknown.
Amy [to Dave]: I thought we had no user limit under solaris :(
Amy [to vivian]: you're welcome!
Teal_Guest says, "Vivian... my user and password would not work, which is why I'm logged as a guest"
leibs has disconnected.
Dave [to Amy]: Now we know better!
Amy [to vivian]: glad you could come!
Azure_Guest says [about technoscience], "same here"
< connected: Umber_Guest. Total: 53 >
Flame_Guest says, "Parting shot: In the end the key issue is persistence, both in terms of objects and identity: persistent objects create a world rather than a chat room and persistent identity creates the possibility of community."
Amy waves to all, and heads to the next event