2:30-3:30 PM ET in the back room of the Root Lounge (@go Root Lounge)
on MediaMOO, telnet://mediamoo.cc.gatech.edu:8888
A lot of MOOs are pretty quiet these days. There are exceptions: LambdaMOO thrives like kudzu. Diversity University and Tapped In grow slowly, buoyed by the relentless enthusiasm of their creators. Like many MOOs, MediaMOO at this stage is largely a historical artifact--one of the living dead. Yet the concept of an online professional community for media researchers remains intriguing. Questions for discussion include:
The Back Room
It's dark in here, with patches of bright light from adjustable halogen lamps. There is a large round table in the middle of the room, containing screens and keyboards, free for anyone to use. This looks like a good place to sit down and code.
This room is reserved between 2:30pm EST and 3:30pm EST for the 6th Birthday Symposium on January 20th 1999. The topic of this symposium will be "The future of MediaMOO: Autopsy and Redesign." Everyone is welcome to attend. Please note that the symposium is being logged and that the log will be publicly posted.
Obvious exits: root to The Root Lounge
Shaan, taylor, Turquoise_Guest, Umber_Guest, Van*Faussien, Cil, Ninja_Librarian, Chrissey, yduJ, Rodney, Lizzie, Daniel, paula, boom, oomwoo [i], Guest, Iliana, Marty (Thou art god), Gray_Guest, Caille_Bot, Amy, and jaime are here.
oomwoo dropped httpd.
yduJ recompiles the world, has 5 mins to chat with y'all til it's time to try it.
Caille_Bot grins at yduJ.
Amy says, "thanks for coming everyone"
cdr materializes out of thin air.
Amy says, "I'm really pleased to see some old familiar faces here"
oomwoo drops generic applet.
Amy says, "Once upon a time, this was a vital place"
Amy says, "it meant something to lots of folks"
Amy says, "my personal theory is that this medium was new then, and spending time understanding its basic nature was a valuable use of all of our time"
cdr nods
Amy says, "now this technology is... well, crufty"
yduJ sniffs
cdr snuffles in his Moo brew..
Amy says, "and we're all busy with jobs, businesses, etc, etc"
Caille_Bot tries to comfort yduJ.
oomwoo waits for Amy to continue
boom sighes quietly
Shaan nods
Van*Faussien has a very different perspective than amy
Amy says, "Carlos is going to redesign MediaMOO"
Shaan waves being Carlos
oomwoo [to Amy]: from a social or a terchnical perspective ???
Bill sees the espresso going untouched and comes to collect it.
Amy says, "and I'd like to start off by asking everyone: when this place was important to you, what benefits did you get from it?"
cdr says, "To every thing there is a season,
And a time to every purpose under the heaven.rcx To every thing there is a Season,
And a time to every purpose unde ther the heaven..."
Amy says, "why did you come here more in the past? why don't you now?"
Caille_Bot raises is hand
Van*Faussien smiles fondly at cdr
Amy [to Caille_Bot]: go for it
Van*Faussien says, "This place is still important to me, because, as you said, it was my first MOO home, it was the place where the "secrets of the MOO' were unfolded before me...."
Cath materializes out of thin air.
cdr says, "oooooo.... secrets.."
Van*Faussien . o O ( should have raised my hand...sorry )
Caille_Bot says, "I was attracted here by the fact that it was a community of serious intellectuals, at least by MOO standards certainly. And I have always enjoyed my interactions with the people here. "
Amy [to van,]: nah no hands required. let's keep this pretty informal
yduJ [to Caille_Bot]: is the "community of serious intellectuals" need now met by Dhalgren?
Amy [to yduJ]: what is dhalgren like?
Caille_Bot says, "Be that as it may, as I accrued characters on more and more moos, and got to know more and more people, it got harder to keep up with all of them, all the time. Coincidentally, there got to be less to do here for reasons I'm sure we will be getting into."
yduJ [to Amy]: a bunch of lambda dinos, led by legba, mostly idling but often chatting with intelligence and care.
Van*Faussien says, "...but, there would have been no need for me to have learned the "secrets" of the MOO if I wasn't going to do something with them...I teach, I had to find another space where I could combine the moo with what I do..."
Caille_Bot says, "So nowadays I am here somewhat more than a lot of my moos, most of which I am on rather little, but much less than the ones I am on most."
Van*Faussien giggles as she remembers a period of time when she collected characters on multimoos, as if she didn't need sleep :)
taylor says, "as the crowds left here, so did i. idling alone is not so fun. and it makes chatting hard ;)"
Amy [to taylor]: but what made the crowds leave?
Van*Faussien nods to taylor
Iliana says, "No, really, Dhalgren is boring, crusty, and there's broken glass -everywhere-."
oomwoo thinks the explosion of the MOOniverse has been relevant to the empty halls here at media
Iliana ahem.
Amy [to taylor]: and are they going to other MOOs or to things other than MOOs?
Cath agrees with Ommoo
taylor [amy]: i've often wondered that. events that use to happen with regularity left
Van*Faussien [to Amy]: I think it is, in a way, like growing up...being here gave me wings to fly, but I had to leave the nest
Shaan nods
taylor [amy]: even though i didn't always go to them, it added "bulk" to the numbers which in turn keeps people on
Zachary says, "eveyone wants to be a wizard."
oomwoo says, "sooo, one create `er own world"
Amy says, "certainly in some ways we're a victim of our own success. we've had lots of successful sub-communities that grew up and wanted places of their own"
Iliana misses folks she only saw here.
Daniel thinks that there were three things that happened at the same time that led to the decline of MediaMOO.
Caille_Bot [to yduJ]: oly in part. One can never have too many such communities. I am glad to be on both media and dhalgren. one can never have too many such communities, but dhalgren does seem livelier most of the time.
Shaan nods
taylor listens to daniel
Van*Faussien listens to daniel
cdr listens to Daniel..
taylor chuckles
Daniel says, "One was that lots of other MOOs sprang up, many founded by MediaMOO alums."
Cath says, "there used to be a core crowd of ppl here that I liked to drop in and visit, but as the crowd dwindled, so did my time here"
Zachary [to Caille_Bot]: i disagree; you can only really be part of so many communities
Zachary [to Caille_Bot]: my max # is soemehwere areound 3 or 4
Daniel says, "Another was that Amy had to finish her degree, so her attention shifted to MOOSE Crossing."
Shaan agrees with Zach
Caille_Bot [to Zachary]: indeed, not consistently. But I remain glad they are all out there
Caille_Bot [to Zachary]: that is as many as I follow consistently at a given moment
Amy . o O ( and now from MOOSE to AquaMOOSE 3D )
Zachary [to Caille_Bot]: I hang out in like 3 places but have a small presence on a few others
Caille_Bot [to Cath]: your experience is not unique
Daniel says, "The third was that our community became very divided over some policy issues; people began attacking each other personally and that eroded the trust that was here."
Shaan grins at Amy
Caille_Bot nods to Zachary.
taylor [daniel]: good points
Iliana nods Daniel.
Shaan hmm's
Cil was not here at Mediamoo's inception and came here to hopefully interact with other professionals.
Caille_Bot [to Daniel]: that happens in a lot of commuities :-(
Jason materializes out of thin air.
Amy [to Daniel]: I think the politics was a mixed blessing. in some ways it was divisive. In other ways, the real quieting down here started when the politics ended. the politics excited many people
Shaan says, "but couldn't that controversy also act as a kind of atractors? I love a good argument..."
Amy says, "not that I'd do it again!"
Amy smiles
Cil says, "Unfortunately, I came during a period of decline and so was never really able to enjoy that interaction."
Daniel smiles.
yduJ nods Daniel. Trying to make this into a democracy was probably not really wise. Especially with difficult entry requirements. Once people drifted away, there was not an influx of new blood.
taylor says, "i remember when things were very friendly and open here. slowly it became more contentious and less and less people logged on. old friends left"
Caille_Bot [to Shaan]: when conflict becomes rancorous it can cease to be interesting
Shaan agrees
Zachary [to Daniel]: well, sure, events draw spectators... but you aen't trying to be football game, you're trying to be a pub.
Van*Faussien [to Daniel]: at what point in time do you see the politics beginning to contribute greatly to the decline of the community?
oomwoo thinks the lack of active janitors caused the technology lag
taylor says, "but is it just natural. that's what happens to these worlds? the question is can you revive it or call it a done deal and time to move on"
cdr hides behind his bar stool..
yduJ [to oomwoo]: nah, LambdaMOO is still pretty dark ages technologywise, and it's got plenty of people.
taylor grins
Amy crouches next to the bar stool, hoping cdr will come back out
yduJ says, "LM is secretly in decline, we're losing about 10 more per month than we gain, but."
Caille_Bot says, "I'm troubled by something that was said in the beginning--that people were attractred here because thre technology was new, as if newness was an end in itself"
Shaan hmm's
Cath thinks there needs to be fun stuff to do, even in a professional environment, interesting ppl who are friendly
taylor says, "i think it was more the vibrancy of the interactions"
oomwoo [to yduJ]: the *core is the technology push at Lambda
Daniel [to Van*Faussien]: Do you mean in general, or here?
Cil doesn't think that's the case.
Caille_Bot says, "I'm sure most mooers are not especiially concerned about whether their moos' technology is state of the art or not"
Caille_Bot [to taylor]: exactly
Cil agrees with Caille_Bot.
yduJ hsm. She sees she's going to miss her self-imposed deadline of valentine's day for a new core. Oh well.
Van*Faussien [to Daniel]: i meant here...
Caille_Bot tries to comfort yduJ.
Shaan [to Cath]: "isn't the real atractor of MOO's its regulars?"
Amy [to Caille_Bot]: well, that's my little pet theory. i think that people who are "media researchers" have time to burn to help learn about a new medium. so in the beginning it wasn't jsut about networking, it was also about understanding the Internet
yduJ nods to Shaan
Cil says, "I think most mooers care about interaction. Without people here, no interaction, no people here. A cycle of decline."
taylor would be happy to start logging back in and idle the day away if others did
Cath [to Shaan]: yes - that was what attracted me
Daniel says, "People only interested the technology had other options -- Lambda and JHM, for example."
Caille_Bot [to Shaan]: I sure tink so--a consistent set of people to get to know
Shaan nods
Amy [to Caille_Bot]: now we all know this medium inside-out. and it's good to get to see one another, but we're all busy people. Now if we made it the slickest new 3D tech... maybe folks's make more time.
Caille_Bot [to taylor]: I already do that on some other moos
Zachary [to Caille_Bot]: MOOers only care about tech lag if they lack the tech lag someplace else and so find those new features desirble.
Cath nods to Cil
taylor [amy]: i disagree
Amy [to Caille_Bot]: but the problem with this model is that it involves eternally redesigning to always be on the edge
yduJ [to Daniel]: i think that media researcher's interest in the technology isn't the same as hackers'. JHMers all got into the nitty gritty. MediaMOOers got into "how this thing functions for talking"
cdr perks up at Amyh's remark..
Amy listens to taylor. "In what ways?"
oomwoo has enjoyed the httpd and the 3D enhancements
taylor [amy]: i don't think 3d or graphics are the solution, necessarily
Daniel nods yduJ.
Shaan says, "well, its not even having a constan set of people. People come and go, interest change, people get other things to do. Look at LM, it keeps going because there is a steady influx of new people"
Caille_Bot [to Amy]: which begs the question: when is it important to have cutting edge technology, and when is older technology still adequate for our purposes?
Van*Faussien is thinking about something...
Cil wonders what Shaan will do to revamp Media
Van*Faussien says, "i was just thinking about amy's comment (and cdr's perking up) about "new, slick, technology""
Cath agrees with yduJ - it was about talking
Caille_Bot nods and smiles to Cath
oomwoo says, "ICQ is sort of about talking"
Shaan [to Cil]: "Me too... :-)"
Cil grins at Shaan
Cil says, "Moo is about both talking and creating."
taylor [amy]: the tech is never what drew me here or kept me coming. or only in as much as it facilitated social space. whether or not upping the tech bar will do that is a whole other question
Van*Faussien says, "and then i was thinking about "early adopters/pioneers" and "mainstream faculty""
Shaan says, "I dont think that it is so much a technical issue..."
oomwoo thinks moo can also be about publishing . . . or advertising memes
Shaan says, "in some respects I think technology works against you"
Cil agrees with Shaan
Van*Faussien says, "mediamoo thrived because it had early adopters/pioneers....who by their very nature are going to move on to something new, something slick....brave new trails in new worlds...."
Shaan says, "I'm still a moo regular because this thing is about as fast as you can get"
taylor [amy]: there are also some really serious considerations if things get shifted over to graphics (esp. 3d ones)
Cil says, "As Amy says...we are all busy people. :)"
cdr nods Van*F
Amy says, "Amy Jo Kim had an interesting observation. She commented that very few RL communities are stable over time with the same group of people. Church groups are a rare example that is. Other groups like fraternities are stable over time as an institution but with constantly changing actual members. They're a phase you pass through"
Caille_Bot [to oomwoo]: not that different fomr paging on a moo
Shaan says, "anything fancier means that I start loosing response speed, and as I said, people and conversation is what is really important to me"
Ninja_Librarian says, "The requirement that people be "media researchers" can limit membership. I wasn't sure I qualified when I first applied here."
Zachary blatantly doesn't qualify.
yduJ neither.
taylor nods. "i think that goes to my previous question - is it just a matter of life cycle in some ways."
cdr certainly isnt one..
yduJ is only here cuz she can hack.
Shaan agrees with Amy
Caille_Bot [to Amy]: good point, often overlooked. one still tends to miss one;s own peer group as it disperses though
Amy says, "so one model for the future of Media is to try to appeal to grad students just starting out in this field"
taylor grins at ninja
Zachary is only here cuz he sort-of qualified at one point.
taylor chuckles
Caille_Bot [to Amy]: capital idea
Amy says, "as a place where you come to share ideas when you're just developing yourself as a professoinal in media"
oomwoo thinks a rootedness in RL is also key to Media' theme
Shaan nods
Cath says, "yes, and when the early adaptors moved on, Media's entrance guidelines perhaps scared off ppl who would have contributed to the next phase"
taylor says, "broadening the qualification might help. what about not just students but technologists - people /building/ things"
Pogo [to Amy]: then you want to attract experienced people also.
Van*Faussien [to Ninja_Librarian]: that's alright ... i didn't know what a media researcher was when I applied, but something I said must have sounded like i was :)
Cil nods to Cath
Shaan hmm's
Caille_Bot [to Amy]: hopefully 'professional in media' is interpreted expansively
yduJ [to Amy]: how about allowing students as well as professionals?
Caille_Bot [to Cath]: good point
taylor says, "i use to have a small group of friends from the boston vr group come here regularly. they weren't grad students but they added a hell of a lot"
Amy [to Caille_Bot]: we almost never reject anyone. well, anyone over the age of 14 anyway...
taylor grins
Amy [to Caille_Bot]: it's mostly self selection
Cil gathers that if you said you were a grad student in media research you would probably be granted a character here
Zachary [to taylor]: that's a good idea since those are the people who have to *act* on the ideas that come out of here.
Daniel says, "The nice thing about the requirements was they were specific enough to scare off people who didn't care, but vague enough to allow enormous diversity of backgrounds -- like the people in this room."
yduJ [to Amy]: but maybe too many people self select out.
Caille_Bot says, "I myself really sweat over the application process, and was pleasantly surprised to get same-day approval"
Amy [to Cil]: absolutely
Shaan says, "well, I'd think of professionals and 'others' on a more invitation basis..."
Van*Faussien says, "There's an element or spirit that I found here that might be rejuvenated with the right audience..."
Amy nods to yduj
Shaan says, "that way we only get people who care"
taylor says, "self selection is a tough call though. people get a sense of what is "legit" and weed themselves accordingly. maybe broadening what is legit"
Pogo says, "I have to admit that I selected myself out for years because I don't see myself as a media researcher."
taylor nods to zachary
Amy [to yduJ]: but I don't think self selection out is the whole problem. LOTS of MOOs are pretty dead these days
Amy says, "Lambda is the exception"
Pogo nods to Taylor
yduJ says, "Well, Dhalgren and Waterpoint."
yduJ says, "Er, I haven't been to Waterpoint in a while, so maybe it died."
yduJ says, "prolly not tho"
Zachary says, "Waterpoint is still active."
Caille_Bot says, "I explored the palce as a guest a few times, talked to people, and was assured that the screening process was more a bozo filter than anything else. it was then I decided to join up for real"
Cil says, "DU has really become fairly dead except for the groups of classes that come on."
taylor says, "well, we might be fooling ourselves if we expect the early bulk we got years ago on any mud space"
Van*Faussien says, "One of the things that astounded me when I came was the downright helpfulness, patience, and good will of people that had already been here....I had more mentors that I could have asked for...and perhaps the fact that I needed them (or others like me) helped them to stay a bit as well...."
taylor says, "things have certainly dispersed, for a variety of reasons"
Amy nods to taylor
oomwoo says, "PMC is still active, surprisingly enough"
Caille_Bot [to Cil]: I think people have always perceived that classes were mostly what it's for
Daniel nods Van*F
Caille_Bot smiles at oomwoo [e].
Caille_Bot [to oomwoo]: no thanks to those who bungled its management back in '95
Amy says, "but ya know I'm tired of coming here and finding three people on: me, and the same two people locked in a private room together"
Zachary says, "okay, technological reason that things have quieted down:"
Iliana wonders if people who came here initially, or to LM, migrated to smaller & more focused communities.
Cil [to Caille_Bot]: The new people perhaps, but the oldtimers also found much to do outside of classes at DU. That has pretty much ended for now.
Pogo says, "Does anyone know if simialr topics are more populated *anywhere* else? Message boards, newsgroups, lists or other Asynchronous methods?"
taylor nods to amy
oomwoo nods to the serious mishandling of a social situation
Zachary says, "lots more MOOs around because the bar to setting one up has been lowered"
Caille_Bot [to Amy]: that is a bummer on any mnoo
Shaan says, "but dont you think the sese of belonging, of being a cohesive group was helped by having the media-researcher theme/requirement?"
Van*Faussien wonders about life cycles....do periods come and go...or when they are gone, are they gone?
taylor [shaan]: it wasn't so much for me
Van*Faussien wonders if that makes any sense at all?
Caille_Bot [to Van*Faussien]: I am surte that happens to all social systems to some degree
Shaan nods to taylor
taylor [shaan]: it was really more that it was an active space and i interacted with folks. that made me feel as though i belonged
Cil has seen DU silent in the past and it has always picked up. I wonder if that can happen here...I'm sure it can.
yduJ [to Shaan]: since i dont meet the requirements it's hard for me to comment
Van*Faussien lags badly
Caille_Bot [to Cil]: I sure hope so
taylor [van]: i wonder the exact same thing
Shaan grins at yduj
Caille_Bot smiles wryly at yduJ
Cath says, "two things really got me into Media - the Tues Cafe, and the formerly stable Seaside ComMOOnity"
Zachary says, "thing is, it's trivial to set up a new MOO now, so any online community that desires one just sets a new one up."
Caille_Bot liked the Seaside community too
oomwoo is still a SeaSider, but misses good old TomR
taylor nods to zachary
Shaan agrees with Zachary
Pogo says, "On the other hand, people are out there and are interested as today suggests."
Amy says, "one idea we're exploring is a distributed architecture, so you could have control over a sub-community but have it still be part of the same system as the main community"
Zachary says, "so to an extent I think that you may be letting the realspace analogue of MOOs fool yuo into thinking of them as permanent-ish spaces."
Cath nods to oomwoo - TomR was a very strong anchor for a long time there
taylor says, "i wonder if we did an experiment of logging on to simply build names on that darn who list - what would happen? i know with me, if i see a long list i am likely to stay around and in turn end up chatting"
Amy . o O ( your tax dollars at work )
taylor grins at amy
Amy . o O ( federal employee logged on all day )
Shaan says, "I think part of the problem is that there are too many things to do now, and still the same number of hours. Too many MOO's that people are members of. When I started I only belonged to one, but now..."
Amy grins
Iliana [amy]: cool
Cath nods to taylor - that critical mass
Caille_Bot [to Amy]: we have been trying that on moos too
taylor nods. "it really is key, imo"
Shaan grins at amy
Amy [to Caille_Bot]: in what sense?
Pogo [to taylor]: Having worked on a system where current population figures were not available to everyone and then making them available, I can attest that it will kick up usage.
yduJ nods. I only have room for one and a half moos in my workday. the one is Dhalgren and the half is Lambda.
taylor nods
Caille_Bot [to Amy]: discrete special interest sections within the general interest moo
Amy nods to caille
Caille_Bot [to Amy]: it's worked better one some occasions than others
taylor [amy]: maybe also reposting info about getting on media far and wide to all applicable lists/newsgroups/etc
Shaan says, "but how can we focus peoples attention back to this MOO from all the others scattered about?"
Daniel says, "I just thought of something else... In the early days here, people had 'work' to do -- building new places, organizing seminars, etc. So they had a reason to come other than just hanging out. That meant there was almost always someone around to talk to."
taylor says, "again though, if no one is here, folks won't stay"
Cath isn't MOOing elsewhere now, just isn't mooing much anymore
Amy nods to taylor
Cil nods to Daniel
Shaan agrees with Daniel
Caille_Bot [to Shaan]: promote it as a jejeune-free zome perhaps?
Cil says, "I think that's key. People need something to DO here"
Amy [to Daniel]: but the events were all user-organized. and people aren't doing that any more
Caille_Bot nods sadly to his friend Cath
taylor says, "heh, i don't /do/ much elsemoo but i always stay logged in ;)"
Shaan nods to Amy
Caille_Bot [to Cil]: exactly
Cil says, "So maybe the events need to be administrator-organized instead...maybe once more activities are held here, more will be held here."
Shaan nods to Caille
Cil . o O ( Such as this one :) )
Amy says, "I am not the sort of person to think the tech is the issue. BUT... in preparation for this event, I was thinking of putting some resources up on the web. and the idea of bothering to put them up in an ascii-environment seemed unthinkinkable to me"
Cath . o O ( today is a case in point - look around )
Cil [to Cath]: Right :)
Shaan [to Cil]: "Then things start getting hairey... if that one administrator leaves, or gets a life, the comunity dies"
Pogo [to Cil]: As seeding to be sure.
Amy [to Cil]: Cilla, Carlos and I put a LOT of time into organizing this. we'll do it for ya once a year for the bday. that's about all I have time for!
Cil [to Shaan]: Not necessarily
Caille_Bot [to Amy]: I myself first got the notice of todays events on an email list
taylor [amy]: fwiw, i think having a webby rooms and such is a fun idea. it would give a zing to mediamoo without having to be a huge jump to 3d or somesuch
Cil nods to Amy
yduJ wrinkles her nose. But she's a luddite, so.
Caille_Bot says, "INteractive rtooms are considered to be a drawing card for many moos--hopefully"
Shaan [to Cil]: "How so?"
taylor grins at yduJ
Amy [to taylor]: something webby is what carlos is planning on working on. but a total rewrite--not a web interface to moo
Cil [to Amy]: But if 6 people organize one event each each year....
Cil smiles
Shaan nods
Amy [to taylor]: with a distributed architecture
Amy [to Cil]: you volunteering?
Shaan feels webby right now..
andyed wanders in
Cil [to Shaan]: If admin organized events act more as a seed..
oomwoo smiels and bows to the arriving andyed
taylor [amy]: no, i don't want to moo via web. but for instance i like that over at snow (sadly down now) i can add to my moorooms with graphics, etc for web folks to peek at if they want
Amy [to Cil]: well that's why I do this each year
Van*Faussien knows how difficult organizing even small events can be thrown into the middle of an already full workload...take OERG for example
Cil laughs...it's not an unlikely thing Amy :)
Cil must defend her thesis first :)
Daniel says, "I'm more of a text guy, too. I'm not opposed to a webby interface, but I'd hate to have this become about who can do the best artwork for rooms."
Cil nods to Van*
taylor grins at shaan
oomwoo suggests, ; verbs(#3109)
Amy [to Cil]: that's exactly the issue.. everyone gots RL stuff to give priority
Shaan nods to Cil, "yeah, I think that Admin sponsored events can help keep the fire from going out in many cases, kinda like a vitamin boost'
Amy would LOVE it if folks here would organize events
Zachary says, "it's orders of magnitude easier to describe something in words thanto ddraw it."
Pogo [to Amy]: Are there any other regularly occuring events? Even stuff as simple as a new years bash?
Cil nods to Amy
Amy [to Pogo]: used to be tuesday cafe every week
Amy [to Pogo]: and happy hour on Fridays
Cil [to Amy]: Thta's right. And that's why YOU can't personally organize 6 events a year here. How many admins are here?
Van*Faussien used to come to Tuesday Cafe all the time, then her son started playing basketball during the winter months and high schools play on tusday and friday nights...
yduJ . o O ( do i count? )
Van*Faussien loved happy hour ... since she doesn't drink...it was perfect for her!
Amy [to yduJ]: given that you're the most active after me, yeah you count
Caille_Bot [to Van*Faussien]: Rl can compete successfully with mooing for anyone
yduJ grins
Caille_Bot grins at Van*Faussien.
Pogo says, "I'm not an admin, but a core group of people who are willing to show up regularly can get somthign started."
Amy [to Cil]: see it's easy to propose it... but even the proposer isn't willing to go do one!
oomwoo [to Zachary]: early web was to publish written works
yduJ says, "the only event i can think of is something we tried but didn't really succesffully do on Dhalgren, which was to have a book club."
Cil [to Amy]: I didn't say that :)
Shaan says, "hey, if anyone is willing to volunteer...."
Cil grins
yduJ says, "we *did* all read the books, but we enver managed to have the discussion"
oomwoo says, "only recent web is to gloss with graphics"
Amy twists cil's arm
Amy grins
Cil says, "Ouch!!"
Caille_Bot tries to comfort yduJ.
Amy says, "ok gang, what advice would you all give to carlos?"
yduJ [to Caille_Bot]: do you mind if I fix that typo?
Shaan gets into advisee mode
Caille_Bot [to yduJ]: I'd love it if you fixed all my typos
Van*Faussien says, "I'd be interested in knowing what ideas carlos already has...then we can spawn off those"
yduJ was specifically thinking of #7952:comfort
Cil says, "Maybe relax the requirements for requesting? I think we can still get serious professionals here without scaring potentials away."
taylor [amy]: i don't know if he is the person to do it, but reannounce media in a wide variety of places. get some folks to always be around so that there are people here when new ones arrive.
Cil found the requirements fairly daunting.
Cath agrees with Cil on that one
taylor [amy]: and yeah, broaden the definition of who would "fit" here
Amy [to Carlosj]: it's fine with me if you do a review of what it feels like to a new person and soften the language a bit
cdr says, "Sentiment aside, is ther any good reason NOT to pull the plug on MediaMOO?"
yduJ says, "fixed"
Shaan nods
taylor grins at cdr
Caille_Bot smiles at yduJ.
taylor [cdr]: it's an important question
Caille_Bot [to cdr]: you bet your sweet life there is
Pogo says, "So who is willing to take that up?"
taylor [caille]: what?
Amy [to cdr]: well I think the idea is to do a new version and then have a closing party and a re-opening for the new one at the same time
oomwoo does not think the niche has gone
cdr says, "i see.."
Cath says, "i think Media fills a unique niche, even if only sporadically at present"
Caille_Bot [to taylor]: reasons not to abandon this moo to the four winds
Amy says, "or we could leave this up as a historical relic"
Amy smiles
Shaan says, "I think MOO's in general are still very usefull, and MediaMOO used to be one of the best out there. And if it is possible to get some of that energy back, I think its worth it"
taylor [caille]: i know. what are they? ;)
yduJ [to Amy]: would you still use moo technology as the basis?
Amy [to yduJ]: nope
Amy [to yduJ]: total rewrite, maybe based in squeak
Caille_Bot [to taylor]: it is a place to meet online, on a higher intellectual level than most
Shaan nods
Amy [to yduJ]: with a moose-like language and distributed architecture
yduJ says, "you'll hafta grandfather me in, if you want me, then :-) Cuz I won't meet the requirements."
yduJ says, "Unless you make them more "interested in" than "working in"."
oomwoo says, "what is the URL for squeak ???"
yduJ still thinks your requirements bar is too high
taylor [caille]: i'd agree with you if it fulfilled that but it doesn't. maybe it's time has just passed and that's not bad or anything, just what it is.
Shaan grins at yduJ
Caille_Bot [to yduJ]: I myself was troubled by that, back when
Pogo [to Amy]: It might be better to close the old one - thus preventing anyone who thinks they liked the old better than the new from retreating and dividing the group.
oomwoo thinks it would be a mistake to abandon the existing technology
Cath agrees witn oomwoo
yduJ [to Pogo]: that would be me.
yduJ <- luddite
Caille_Bot [to taylor]: it can be again if its mareted right. Just as all mooos need to be marketed
taylor agrees, not moo would make adding media to her list of regular stops very unlikely
Shaan says, "well... in my opinion... I dont think it is a technology issue so much as a social one.."
taylor nods to caille_bot
Caille_Bot grins at yduJ.
Caille_Bot [to Shaan]: bingo
taylor says, "i totally agree with shaan"
Shaan says, "but if we're going to put in all this work, I'd like to spiff it up, and fix some of its shortcommings"
taylor smiles
oomwoo says, "however, the accumulated mind sweat has produced good work"
Shaan says, "thats why we're looking to go to a distributed system"
oomwoo codes in c for money and the c code underneath moo is solid
cdr says, "To every thing there is a season,
And a time to every purpose under the heaven.
A time to be born,
A time to die,
a time to MOO,
And a time to stop MOOing..."
Shaan says, "and web-based interfaces seem to be the way people are going..."
taylor [shaan]: can you say as specifically as possible what you mean?
Cath says, "I think if Media as is gets dismantled, you'll lose the core groupp - not that another group might not appear, but this one will disperse"
oomwoo [to Shaan]: integrate a whiteboard
oomwoo says, "add some ip voice"
Shaan says, "but I'd like to implement it from scratch, because patches are... well.. patchy at best..."
Shaan says, "I have yet to see a MOO-web interface that works well"
Caille_Bot [to Cath]: I wold hate to see this group disperse
taylor smiles. "the more we talk the more i feel media has passed"
oomwoo would also allow for multiple client types
Amy [to oomwoo]: this isnt' exactly the right url, but it'll lead you the right one: http://www.cc.gatech.edu/fac/mark.guzdial/squeak/pws/
Daniel [to taylor]: But nothing has taken its place.
Caille_Bot [to oomwoo]: good idea--maybe it shold be publicised better that one can easily telnet fomr the web
Pogo [to Cath]: My comment was a response to Amy's idea of holding a closing/opening at the same time.
Shaan [to Cath]: "Well apart from todays conference.. I think the core group already has dispersed
taylor [daniel]: maybe what has taken it's place is more distributed in other spaces. i still feel like i have a vibrant moolife, just not here
taylor [daniel]: and hello btw. long time no see ;)
Caille_Bot [to taylor]: as do many others :-(
Shaan nods
taylor [caille]: why is that neccessarily bad?
Cil thinks the core group has maintained itself not necessarily thru daily interaction, but by using Media as a home base.
Caille_Bot [to taylor]: this could be a vibrant part of peole;s moo lives, if done right
taylor says, "things change. i mean, if we all really aren't finding good conversation elsewhere that's one thing, but if it is just change well, that happens"
Amy says, "well... shall we adjourn to the ballroom soon?"
cdr says, "The only way to save MM is to kill it.."
Amy says, "any final thoughts?"
Shaan says, "so... does anyone have any sugestions or comments on things we should include/avoid in a new system/ Features etc?"
yduJ says, "have we decided anything?"
Andrew raises his hand to make one comment
taylor [caille]: well, i'm all for it if possible :)
Cil says, "and when circumstances warrent...the core group is here...witness this seminar"
oomwoo smiles slowly
Caille_Bot smiles at Cil.
Van*Faussien fears she is getting disconnected again
Shaan would be happy to talk to any of you later on
Amy [to yduJ]: the plan for now is for carlos to start working on his amazing wonderful project, and also trying to spruce this place up a bit
Daniel [to cdr]: How does that save it? Honor the legacy and move on?
taylor smiles at amy
Shaan doesn't feel very amazing...
taylor says, "well, as an experiment i will log on here every day and idle faithfully for a week ;)"
oomwoo changes Shaan's font color and adds some fancy clients
Caille_Bot grins at taylor.
Cath still comes here to talk to friends several times a week - but does not spend hours just hanging out
Shaan laughs
taylor says, "maybe if enough of us do we will hit that darn critical mass ;)"
cdr [to Daniel]: We can't return to the past.. we must metamorphisize into something grander..
Amy goshes. "Thanks taylor!"
taylor chuckles
Cil laughs
Caille_Bot smiles sypathetically at Cath
Amy nods to cdr
Cobblers [to taylor]: I'll match that ;-)
taylor [amy]: it's an easy gesture on my part ;)
Caille_Bot [to Cath]: time iz a zero-sum game
Pogo's final thoughts are: 1) He will be here every Friday for the next month in the evenings (EST) to hang out with whoever 2) Will be happy to help with any loosening of the requirements
taylor chuckles at cobblers
Amy says, "I guess it's a matter of understanding our current needs better and then figuring out how to meet them"
Caille_Bot [to Amy]: indeed
Amy [to Pogo]: thanks!
taylor [pogo]: oh! hey you :)
Shaan nods
Daniel says, "Should we try to revitalize the happy hour?"
Pogo amends his thoughts to include coming to bug taylor when he can.
taylor says, "folks are welcome to @join me anytime. just be prepared for some idleness"
taylor smiles
Caille_Bot [to danile]: good idea--though the historic scheduling wold be problematic for me. what about an evening happy hour?
taylor chuckles at pogo
Van*Faussien is not surprised one little bit that her network is having trouble today....it's the first day she takes her computer class on the Internet....of course the system would screw up :)
taylor [pogo]: anytime!
Caille_Bot tries to comfort Van*Faussien.
Amy says, "ok gang, speaking of happy hour... I think it's time to dress for the ball!"
Pogo [to taylor]: I'll kick start ya.
Ninja_Librarian says, "Thanks, Amy, for organizing these sessions today."
taylor laughs
cdr says, "This has been a thought provokingt discussion.. catch you all later.."
Andrew says, "I think that the MOO would more interesting, at least for me... if we couyld generate a little more debate and exchange of ideas. I don't think that symposia should be limited to once a year"
cdr waves
Amy [to Ninja_Librarian]: thank you for coming!
taylor [amy]: yeah, thanks amy
taylor waves to cdr
taylor late
Daniel says, "No matter what happens... it was good to see everyone again!"
Caille_Bot [to Andrew]: right you are
taylor smiles. "yep, same here"
Amy goes to get her fav costime
taylor heads home. will try to make the ball in awhile
Amy says, "costume"
oomwoo smiles slowly and waverlies
Ninja_Librarian waves.
Amy says, "thanks for coming everyone!"
Marty waves.
Marty steps out through the curtain.
Cobblers waves.
Amy says, "@go ballroom foyer"
Daniel waves. "Thanks, Amy!"
Cath waves to everyone - is taking a break and will try to get back later
boom says, "Thanks Amy!"